tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3992648596835959526.post5983812258636903928..comments2024-03-22T21:30:12.908-04:00Comments on Slay, Monstrobot of the Deep!!: No, Cyclops Wasn't "Right"snellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06181997862745538999noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3992648596835959526.post-44662290707194603292013-04-01T15:29:47.452-04:002013-04-01T15:29:47.452-04:00You know there are several people who say those al...You know there are several people who say those aliens' deaths were actually good because they were "genetically flawed". Because of this they deserved to die in fiery chaos. This is from the X-men franchise. The one about how genetics aren't supposed to be important.Nonamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10091938541739179557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3992648596835959526.post-30448722910803245122012-10-11T10:42:16.334-04:002012-10-11T10:42:16.334-04:00'Butting into the Mutants' business ......'Butting into the Mutants' business ...' Er, if the whole world is threatened, it's everyone's business.<br /><br />Hope's mother was a firefighter named Louise Spalding. Not Jean. regardless, how would Jean being her mother mean Hope could handle the PF - Jean hardly did a great job.<br /><br />Martin Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09574149543260175962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3992648596835959526.post-45301667426964928592012-10-11T10:27:39.879-04:002012-10-11T10:27:39.879-04:00I never had an interest in these books, but I can&...<br /><br />I never had an interest in these books, but I can't help but be sorry for Cyke and Cap. Cyke haters will never live this moment down, adding this to an already long list of questional behavior. Only this time he's not entirely to blame. Meanwhile, Cap will be heckled by X-fans for years to come over this, taking over their beloved leader's role on questionable terms. Yeah he was way out of character over this, but to put Cyclops in jail for lesser crimes but to let the Scarlet Witch roam free is an hypocracy not even neutral fans like me will understand. Let's hope both characters recover over this as mutants couldn't have asked for a better positioning right now. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3992648596835959526.post-45475104245798601742012-10-11T10:23:49.712-04:002012-10-11T10:23:49.712-04:00First off, I want to confirm that I'm not eith...First off, I want to confirm that I'm not either a particular X-fan or Avengers fan. I just like reading good stories and all. I like Captain America, believed he was right in Cuvil War and believed that the movie version nailed his personality to a T. I also believe that it is right to question Cyclops' increasingly isolationistic views for mutants. This caused Scism, which I believe Wolverine had a point in the matter.<br /><br />Cyclops should have tried to be more friendly with the humans in San Francisco. If they did, then perhaps the Avengers would have trusted him more, but that's for another story.<br /><br />You may be asking why Scott was putting so much trust in an underaged girl? Well, said girl was the daughter of Jean Grey, the original Phoenix and who was doing just fine before Mastermind manipulated her Not to mention Rachel Summers, a person who stil had the Phoenix Force in her in the beginning o the story. Cable himself told Scott Hope was the key before he died. All of this evidence had Scott to believe that only Hope could handle the Phoenix Force, and he was right in the end. Sure, there was a chance that Hope wasn't ready yet, and the comic indicated so, but Cap had no othher plan other than the one mentioned above which would have doomed the planet anyways<br /><br />Another problem is the justification of influence, someting that would only harnish a slap in the wrist in the comic world. Even then, Scott looks to be the least deserving in jail. His only crime appears to be killing his own mentor, which doesn't hold any weight because Scott was turning dark at that point and the writers just couldn't make Xavier look significant anymore. There isn't any other thing that he can be tried for. Giving those people everything they could have wanted and being called evil is lime accusing Jesus of crimes when he attempts second coming. Stuff like this can be a bad thing when demonstrated properly, and yes it is likely the P5 would be more antagonistic no matter what due to not being the chosen one, but provoking them with no plan of taking the Phoenix Force was a horrible idea. It only made the P5 go mad faster then they would have before.<br /><br />It just looked as if the Avengers were butting into the mutant's business with no knowledge as to how to stop it. Did they offer a reasonable alternative for the Phoenix Force in the beginning? No. Did they do any research as to how to put down the P5 knowing that an attack is likely to send them over the edge? No. Even Xavier himself should have known better than to antagonize Scott when he was the only one left in semi-control, risking the chance to go dark.<br /><br />The Avengers messed up in trying to deal with the phoenix Force as much as the X-Men did and yet it looks as if they will get no blame for it, depicting Cyclops as the villain despite being under the influence and forgiving the Scarlet Witch, a woman that has done far worse by inadvertably killing tens of thousands of former mutants. All Scott did was to be provoked to kill his own mentor after creating a utopia with no catches. It may be implied that other people were killed, but it never shows up.<br /><br />And this is my biggest problem. You have both sides going to war, causing all kinds of crap happen to civilians and yet we have absolutely no perspective on the average joes. Did causing world peace force me out of the job? Most likely, but it never shows uo. So we can only assume that they didn't care.<br /><br />As I said, both sides acted antaginistically, but it made the Avengers and especially Cap look worse. Unlike the X-Men, who themselves only had a tint of justification in their actions, the Avengers had absolutely no reason to act so belligerent. The only reason they got away with it was because Scott stupidly blasted him instead of... you know... explaining why Cap's plan was a dumb idea.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3992648596835959526.post-28030100943947358342012-10-11T09:34:32.679-04:002012-10-11T09:34:32.679-04:00There's a hilarious googum Random Happenstance...There's a hilarious googum Random Happenstance strip which makes exactly the same points you make, Snell, ending with Cap telling Logan 'Wow, you're right, he IS a tool." But I'm too tired to look for it right now. I agree with both of you.notinthefacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12537680561821564347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3992648596835959526.post-24506266344745520992012-10-11T09:14:01.261-04:002012-10-11T09:14:01.261-04:00Excellent piece, Snell - you present the facts, an...Excellent piece, Snell - you present the facts, and interpret them in an entirely reasonable way. I just don't understand how Anonymous (hello!) can read the comic in any other way - ruby quartz-tinted lenses?<br /><br />Anonymous, please do tell us what the basis is for Cyclops' assertion that the Phoenix was coming, mutants would be reborn and the world WOULDN'T end? Even if we accept this new claim in the stories that the Phoenix Force sparks new life, we clearly see the existing populations wiped out. It's not risk, but certainty.<br /><br />As for Cyclops 'training' Hope for the coming of the PF, that involved him beating her up and verbally abusing her. He's no great mentor. I do believe that the Phoenix Force corrupted him at the end, sparking a rampage of destruction, but he'd lost his perspective a good while before that.Martin Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09574149543260175962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3992648596835959526.post-44561332294105109692012-10-11T08:08:51.245-04:002012-10-11T08:08:51.245-04:00Just because you agree with the goal doesn't m...Just because you agree with the goal doesn't mean they weren't tyrannical. Even Xavier said they were going too far. And as Superman IV taught us, you know the world wouldn't have stood by idly for "Pax Utopia," whether or not the Avengers acted. Because every misguided regime (ie Latveria) would not quietly go along and would "reject utopia." They would have been pushed over the edge anyway, as the whole moral of the enterprise is that only Hope was strong enough to resist corruption by the Phoenix Force.<br /><br />Please reread AvX #6--the Avengers DID NOT try bring down the Utopia, they merely tried to free Hope.<br /><br />Cyclops had NO plan in the beginning, just a delusional hope that everything would work out. The only training he gave Hope was physical fighting drills. He would have rejected K'un-L'un, too, had they come to him, and he would have rejected the Scarlet Witch. <br /><br />To suggest Cap "stole" Scott's plan is to imply Scott had one, which he clearly did not. Scott's only plan was "Let the Phoenix take her and everything will be happiness and bunnies." <br /><br />Cap DID come to talk. Phoenix was DESTROYING PLANETS and Scott refused to listen to a single word or discuss a thing. Scott was the one who was "Captain Self-Righteous." <br /><br />And as I noted in the original post, the was, in the entire history of Marvel, ZERO precedent or evidence for Scott's view of what would happen when the Phoenix came to Earth. ZERO. To call Scott's plan "reasonable but risky" is 100% hindsight, completely unjustified by anything in the story. snellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06181997862745538999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3992648596835959526.post-5171734681445121672012-10-11T02:00:03.309-04:002012-10-11T02:00:03.309-04:00The only thing the P5 told the UN not to do was to...The only thing the P5 told the UN not to do was to start wars. And with virtually all causes of war solved by then, I'm certain 99% of the population would agree to that, as long as they had the freedom. If the P5 acted as if they were going to impose their will as rulers or if the general population were against it, I would agree that it had to be stopped. But neither happens so the Avengers are put in the awkward position of rejecting a utopia with no consequences, making them lok like jerkwards.<br /><br />And although she did initially run away from the X-Men in the beginning, she was also running away from the Avengers at this point. It was only when the Scarlet Witch talk convinced her otherwise that she agreed to cooperate. After the Avengers tried to kidnap her a second time against basically demigods, pushing them over the edge.<br /><br />The crux of the argument is that while Cyke offered a reasonable yet risky plan in the beginning, Cap's plan would be to... kep Hope away from the Phoenix? This would habe either have the Phoenix incinerate Earth for no Hope or have Hope possessed at an unstable state since she would have been against being with the X-Men at the time, prompting her to go dark and incinerating the universe.<br /><br />So basically, Cap's original plan would have resulted in doom. And he ultimately stole Scott's plan in the end, with some modifications. All of this could have been offered if Steve didn't act out like Captain Self-Righteous, believing that his hunces were right despite that the X-Men have far more experience with the Phoenix. And that's when the X-fans started to go nuts and disregard everything about the story, justified or not. This is what's pissing off so many people and believe that Cyke was right all along. Sure everyone was acting more belligerent than usual, but still...<br /><br />In the end it is looking as if Cap will be to Tony as Cyke is with Cap when compared to Civil War. He may have won the battle, but it's hard pressed to root for him acting all smug like that. And since he led the Avengers, all the blame will go to him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3992648596835959526.post-32928355104251658942012-10-11T00:15:39.043-04:002012-10-11T00:15:39.043-04:00They transformed the world "without acting li...They transformed the world "without acting like tyrants"? Perhaps you have a different interpretation of than I of their addressing the UN and declaring what is and isn't allowed anymore.<br /><br />And once again, the Avengers DID NOT "take" Hope. She wanted to go, she chose to go with them. Cyclops was keeping her prisonersnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06181997862745538999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3992648596835959526.post-37920325674339021212012-10-10T23:39:12.330-04:002012-10-10T23:39:12.330-04:00In that case, the obvious solution for the Avenger...In that case, the obvious solution for the Avengers from would have been to assist in helping Hope out in controling the Phoenix, maybe even giving her up in space to prevent the chance of Earth's destruction. Instead, we have Cap basically saying they are taking Hope from Scott. And judging from Emma's telepathic input as well as having a helicarrier full of Avengers just in case, they would not take no for an answer. So Scott predictably blasts Cap off the island for this reason. If Scott had refused formerly said advice, then the Avengers would have been in the right. Sure Scott should have talked it out instead of optic blasting a pal of his, but it didn't look like that option would work. Plus, the Phoenix Five managed to transform the world without acting like tyrrants. This made the Avengers look like a bunch of assholes poking a bear by taking Hope. This predictably causes them to go off the deep end one by one. Basically, this event was stupid in the way this was handled. I fear that Cap and Scott may suffer the most, with Cyclops sliding over to villainry and Cap risking becoming what happened to Tony Stark in Civil War.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com